For this last blog I decided to do an interview. In efforts to combat essay indecision, I had requested the help of a family friend. She graciously offered to answer any questions I had and, not wanting her knowledge and experience to go to waste, I am posting a conversation I had with her that deals a lot with the themes seen in Four Souls, as well as some common themes of the course overall. Gail Woodside is completing her PhD at Oregon State University. She has a degree in Native American Studies, as well as degrees in many other subjects. She is a mixed blood Native person, being part Apache and part Creek Indian. Please note that the answers are not always word-for-word direct quotes, as this interview was done over the phone and I can only write so fast, but the responses are very near to what was said and for the most part I have tried to keep the answers verbatim, and any rephrasing has been done as carefully as possible to prevent loss of the original meaning.
Have you ever read Four Souls by Louise Erdrich?
No, but I have read Louise Erdrich before, such as The Antelope Wife.
What would you consider some common Native American stereotypes?
People think we all look the same. We all have black hair and dark skin. We all speak the same language, ride horses and live in teepees—especially horses and teepees—and wear eagle feather bonnets.
What do you think about blood quantum?
Blood quantum was made to assign land to Native Americans and to make them become more like the colonizers, become “farmers.” At first, the government decided how much Indian blood a Native had based on how they looked, and then enrolled them in tribal nations. The problem is, you can be 100% Native, but the government only recognizes part of you because you can only be enrolled in one nation. It was convoluted in the beginning because percentage was based on appearance, which is not accurate. Very scientific. The idea was to take away land from the Native Americans and get rid of the “Indian problem.”
Do you think blood quantum is a problem between Indians?
We call it “intraracism.” It comes from generational trauma that arises from dealing with so many changes over the years, from being taken from your status as a human being, put in boarding school and deprogrammed. Their philosophy was “save the man, kill the Indian,” and my family was caught in that. You’re expected to be non-native in a world with an increasingly European “slant.” I think it’s not very common among Indians. It’s spotted, but it also depends on what part of the country you’re from, if you’re urban/rural, and if you’re on a reservation or not.
What makes a story specifically “Indian?”It depends on who wrote it, if it’s fiction or nonfiction, what the content is. Everything was traditionally oral, but we write down more and more as we lose Native speakers. It’s important to ask: who gave them permission to tell the story? Some things can only be told at certain times of the year. In fiction, you can tell by the content how true the material is, and how genuine the author’s intent was.
Can non-natives write about/for Native Americans?
If it’s about beliefs or stories they can if they work hard with the Native Americans, if they have a good heart and work hard to ensure what they’re writing is true. It has to be done with a lot of care. Some people just write to exploit the Native Americans. One non-native author ran his manuscripts by the Navajo Council to make sure he didn’t offend anybody.
What would someone who didn’t have a soul look/act like?
I guess a shape-shifter. We have stories about people who shift into wolf-dog-coyote creatures. They’re like witches, so to me it would be the shape-shifter that can morph itself into a dog-like creature. They’re evil because they have gotten into dark things, and they want to hurt you, to take your soul. It’s said they grind up human bones and blow them in your face, to make you sick. (*I personally thought this statement was especially chilling, and commented that it was like they were forcing death into you. Now that I read it again, it’s more like a living death…suffering.)
What if you have more than one soul? Can this be bad?
No, it may refer to different genders. Or may have something to do with their religious belief systems.
Louise Erdrich incorporates many Native stereotypes into her work, why would she do this?
To make people think. If you’re an Indian on a reservation, there is a lot of alcoholism, but not all Native Americans are drunk. There are a lot of stereotypes that people have about Natives. We don’t get free school, we have to pay taxes too, the government doesn’t give us all the money we’ll ever need, we’re not all unemployed… (*I just wanted to make it clear that the alcoholic Indian stereotype pervades throughout the continent, and is not solely associated with Reservation Indians. A common misconception is that Native people in general are alcoholics. Of course, we understand that this is not true.)
In the book Four Souls, one of the characters describes the soul as “what the owl pukes…the story—all that time does not digest” (71). What do you think of this statement?
That’s pretty interesting. We all know what those look like—bones and hair. I see it as skin and bones, but nothing on the inside. What makes their spirit, the essence of who they are, is not there. It’s like walking around without consciousness.
What is the significance of a name? Can being nameless have negative effects?
No, I don’t think so. Being named usually comes from relatives in the past, to preserve and honor the spirit of ancestors. But in the story, it’s like the boy was never given a name, so was never really a part of the people, so he is empty. Names depend on beliefs, so I’m not sure how to answer... because they didn’t give him a name, he continued to degenerate inside until there was nothing there. Sometimes we don’t name children until they’re 3 or 4. Until then, they have “baby names,” and they can change. (*at this point she describes how she’s had many names, and says that her current name was given to her when she graduated from college). Naming depends on tribal beliefs. Some tribes have naming ceremonies, which are a big deal.
What makes a place sacred?
That’s a really heavy question. It depends on who you’re talking to. To me, the whole world is sacred and needs to be treated with respect and beauty, because she is our mother, and we walk upon the bones of our ancestors. Sacred places are also places of emergence, where we emerged from another world into the world we are in now. It’s not a definition you can make that doesn’t have a 100 different meanings.
Does revenge ever really bring happiness?
No. It just makes things more complicated than they were before. It creates a continuation of negativity, which causes chaos and makes other things more negative. All of our actions have reactions. I think of it like a rain drop into a lake. One rain drop hits the surface and makes ripples that flow out. When other rain drops hit the surface, they form ripples as well and they can collide.
It was really interesting to talk to Gail. She was really knowledgeable and had a lot of personal experience that she could relate my questions to. I think a lot of people (including myself) are sometimes under the impression that all Native culture is very similar or even the same, but that’s not the case. Gail answers many questions by saying that it depends on the tribal beliefs, and some of her responses show the different interpretations that come from different cultural aspects. However, there are still many similarities. For example, she mentioned to me the story of the hero twins, who went around the earth getting rid of evil things and making it into a safe place that humans could survive in. This is a variation of the hero twins from the beginning of the course during our readings of the Popol Vuh. Overall, my conversation with Gail was fascinating, and I feel like I’ve definitely gained some new insight into the themes of Four Souls, as well as other themes that we have discussed in class.
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